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Thread: Pudge Hook/Ult Combo

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Pudge Hook/Ult Combo

I know it’s been discussed in the “bugs report” forums section, but no one could really confirm what the bug was, just that there’s some sort of issue, so I figured I could bring it up in this sub-forum too.

It seems that I and some (many others) are having difficulty getting Pudge’s ult to proc properly. I find myself many times, hooking, starting my rot, and then when the enemy travel is up, hitting R and clicking them, just to find Pudge trying to catch up to them to actually channel the Ult. It’s even worse when there’s a group of creeps or other heroes fighting close by that it just doesn’t seem to initiate the ult properly. I’ve even tried hooking and hitting the ult and selecting them early so that when the player reaches me, it’s already attempting to ult them, but still, a lot of the times, they’ll be able to get enough distance that, even if the ult does activate, they’re outside of the rot cloud, which makes the pudge combo much less deadly.

I never played DOTA 1, but from what was posted/stated in the bug thread about this issue, there seems to be a difference between the Pudge’s hook/ult interaction in the two games.

Just thought since no one seemed exactly sure what the cause was, it should be in this forum as well for a little brainstorming.

Seems to me that maybe Pudge’s ult just needs a slightly larger AoE so that when the enemy is hooked, there’s no question that if you didn’t click exactly on the right spot, that you’ll still most likely get Pudge’s ult to activate.

That funny, in dota1, when i was playing magina/morph/qop etc. no pudge did ever hook + ult me, but in dota2 it happened several times, so i was thinking the exact opposite of what you stated.

Thus, if what you stated is true (and what i notice isn’t due to some lag of dota2/me becoming very slow), there’s something wrong with hook too, and not only with ult.

Or, last possible thing i might consider, problem is casting time of several spell (which would serve both your observation and mine, but I think it is the least probable one)

Last edited by miambox; 10-09-2012 at 06:50 AM .

It seems worse case scenario is when I land a successful hook but am not pointed straight at the enemy. Pudge has to turn to perfectly face the enemy in order for the ult to proc. I can’t draw it, because I’m at work, but imagine that Pudge has a very small “cone of vision” in-front of him and this is his ‘window’ of ult proc zone. If the enemy doesn’t fall within this cone, then using the ult will cause Pudge to walk towards/turn in circles until the enemy falls within it.

I might have an idea, mb hook is hooking target to closely to pudge, thus not being totally in the right angle make pudge need to turn to eat the target. In dota1, it was ultra rare that the hooked target land at no range to pudge, since pudge was always moving a bit after hooking and hook was sending the target at cast location, and not at pudge

I don’t have any DOTA1 experience, but there is another topic on forums that shows the difference between DOTA 1 hook mechanics and DOTA 2. There is definitely a difference, but not having the knowledge to compare the two, it’s hard to make a solid statement, all I can say is that I’ve had missed ults from Pudge if I don’t time it out perfectly.

If so, then the videos above the post I have linked should explain the difference between Dota 2 version and the W3 DotA version. Blash has also stated the reason for the bug clearly:

As he said, you could cast your Dismember on the units still being dragged by the Hook. But on Dota 2, the game waits until the Hook is finished to cast the Dismember.

So basically, in D1, ulting was like shift-queuing in D2? If you could ult during the hook, that obviously kept the enemy from escaping at the end of the hook travel. Do we know if this was intended change or actual bug and that we should be able to hook/ult simultaneously?

The simple fix for this is to wait until the hook finishes to cast dismember, because if you cast while they’re coming towards you you invariably end up turning around as your movement towards them causes them to land BEHIND you.

I’ve lost so many kills hooking someone into trees with ulti queued only for them to break vision before it’s casted and Pudge just sits in place. So many kills..

I think the best fix for this scenario then is to have the target move to Pudge and not the cast point. Makes sense anyway, how could I possibly pull something to a spot that I’m not standing in. Pudge should be the cast point, not some arbitrary coordinate. This will ensure that the target is always ult combo capable if the hook was successful and if the player is reacting properly. It also gives the enemy hero the ability to counter attack easier if Pudge is not paying attention/using skills properly, because if target is actually pulled to Pudge and not a distance away (after movemet), then either Pudge can ult/rot combo or the enemy can possibly stun/run/fight Pudge after hook stun is over.

Thread: Pudge Hook/Ult Combo

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Pudge Hook/Ult Combo

I know it’s been discussed in the “bugs report” forums section, but no one could really confirm what the bug was, just that there’s some sort of issue, so I figured I could bring it up in this sub-forum too.

It seems that I and some (many others) are having difficulty getting Pudge’s ult to proc properly. I find myself many times, hooking, starting my rot, and then when the enemy travel is up, hitting R and clicking them, just to find Pudge trying to catch up to them to actually channel the Ult. It’s even worse when there’s a group of creeps or other heroes fighting close by that it just doesn’t seem to initiate the ult properly. I’ve even tried hooking and hitting the ult and selecting them early so that when the player reaches me, it’s already attempting to ult them, but still, a lot of the times, they’ll be able to get enough distance that, even if the ult does activate, they’re outside of the rot cloud, which makes the pudge combo much less deadly.

I never played DOTA 1, but from what was posted/stated in the bug thread about this issue, there seems to be a difference between the Pudge’s hook/ult interaction in the two games.

Just thought since no one seemed exactly sure what the cause was, it should be in this forum as well for a little brainstorming.

Seems to me that maybe Pudge’s ult just needs a slightly larger AoE so that when the enemy is hooked, there’s no question that if you didn’t click exactly on the right spot, that you’ll still most likely get Pudge’s ult to activate.

That funny, in dota1, when i was playing magina/morph/qop etc. no pudge did ever hook + ult me, but in dota2 it happened several times, so i was thinking the exact opposite of what you stated.

Thus, if what you stated is true (and what i notice isn’t due to some lag of dota2/me becoming very slow), there’s something wrong with hook too, and not only with ult.

Or, last possible thing i might consider, problem is casting time of several spell (which would serve both your observation and mine, but I think it is the least probable one)

Last edited by miambox; 10-09-2012 at 06:50 AM .

It seems worse case scenario is when I land a successful hook but am not pointed straight at the enemy. Pudge has to turn to perfectly face the enemy in order for the ult to proc. I can’t draw it, because I’m at work, but imagine that Pudge has a very small “cone of vision” in-front of him and this is his ‘window’ of ult proc zone. If the enemy doesn’t fall within this cone, then using the ult will cause Pudge to walk towards/turn in circles until the enemy falls within it.

I might have an idea, mb hook is hooking target to closely to pudge, thus not being totally in the right angle make pudge need to turn to eat the target. In dota1, it was ultra rare that the hooked target land at no range to pudge, since pudge was always moving a bit after hooking and hook was sending the target at cast location, and not at pudge

I don’t have any DOTA1 experience, but there is another topic on forums that shows the difference between DOTA 1 hook mechanics and DOTA 2. There is definitely a difference, but not having the knowledge to compare the two, it’s hard to make a solid statement, all I can say is that I’ve had missed ults from Pudge if I don’t time it out perfectly.

If so, then the videos above the post I have linked should explain the difference between Dota 2 version and the W3 DotA version. Blash has also stated the reason for the bug clearly:

As he said, you could cast your Dismember on the units still being dragged by the Hook. But on Dota 2, the game waits until the Hook is finished to cast the Dismember.

So basically, in D1, ulting was like shift-queuing in D2? If you could ult during the hook, that obviously kept the enemy from escaping at the end of the hook travel. Do we know if this was intended change or actual bug and that we should be able to hook/ult simultaneously?

The simple fix for this is to wait until the hook finishes to cast dismember, because if you cast while they’re coming towards you you invariably end up turning around as your movement towards them causes them to land BEHIND you.

I’ve lost so many kills hooking someone into trees with ulti queued only for them to break vision before it’s casted and Pudge just sits in place. So many kills..

I think the best fix for this scenario then is to have the target move to Pudge and not the cast point. Makes sense anyway, how could I possibly pull something to a spot that I’m not standing in. Pudge should be the cast point, not some arbitrary coordinate. This will ensure that the target is always ult combo capable if the hook was successful and if the player is reacting properly. It also gives the enemy hero the ability to counter attack easier if Pudge is not paying attention/using skills properly, because if target is actually pulled to Pudge and not a distance away (after movemet), then either Pudge can ult/rot combo or the enemy can possibly stun/run/fight Pudge after hook stun is over.